“In this adaptation, Hamlet says sorry to Ophelia”
Christiane Jatahy on her female version of Hamlet at Wiener Festwochen, cutting open classical theatre and listening to those who were silenced.
(c) Christiane Jatahy
Christiane Jatahy is a Brazilian author, stage-director and filmmaker who has been bringing film and theatre together in her performances.
Jatahy’s newest production Hamlet, Dans les plis du temps premiered in April of this year in Paris. At this year’s Wiener Festwochen the audience was able to witness her revitalization of Hamlet as an angry, clear-sighted woman, brilliantly portrayed by Clotilde Hesme, in the face of hostile patriarchal surroundings.
Bohema: You are back at Wiener Festwochen with an Orlando-like adaptation of Hamlet: Hamlet is a woman, and the question of the play is whether to act, or not to act. Was staging “Hamlet” a dream of yours?
Christiane Jatahy: When I decided to go for [Hamlet], I went in the direction of my research, of my life. I decided to ask myself “But what would happen if this male character, such an important character, became a woman?” Even if it is not to change the story; because unfortunately the only story that Hamlet has, is the story of the play. For me it is much more about how Hamlet, as a woman, can be a part of this story, this system, and at the same time express her reaction against it, and the consequences for the relationships within the play. In this case, the question whether to act or not to act echoes the original play but it gains an extra feminist dimension.
An example I love to give is that, in this adaptation, Hamlet says sorry to Ophelia. This seems like a small thing, but it is enormous when you think about the play.
B: Is it important to safeguard the repertoire in theatre, the classics?
CJ: I think that it is impossible to not have these classics in our environment as an artist because it really is about memory. You can refuse to participate but it is part of our story. I like the idea of using the memory that is in the text, the memory of the history and also the memory that is in the audience when they are watching a play telling a story they know. For me, the classical text is more about having a collective memory and for sure, in the case of Hamlet, Shakespeare, Chekhov, etc, it’s really a part of what we are as artists. It’s impossible to deny that it's about our ancestors, and you can say “No, I don’t want to repeat this” but it’s impossible to deny that it’s part of our history.
B: You describe your own work as being about borders which is one of the prevalent questions of our civilization, and now the center of most heated debates – what is land, and to whom it belongs. You brought “After the Silence”, addressing colonial destruction, stealing of land, and structural racism in Brazil to the Viennese audience in 2022. In what ways do you wish international audiences to connect to stories presenting issues from the other side of the world?
CJ: It's really an important question in my life, I think about borders in my research, but I also think about borders in life, such as geographic borders. When I travelled to film a documentary, as I did for After the Silence, when I went to the site of the interior of Brazil, the rural part, it was also to connect to something that I knew but really didn’t know, or when I travelled to Palestine or Lebanon to do Le présent qui déborde. As an artist I think it’s important to go and see and invite people that are not there geographically to be part of the work, to connect, to erase borders but also to discuss our future. I really believe that it is only in common, in collective, that we can create another future for us. The way the world is going now, disturbing and dangerous, there are a lot things happening outside of our own borders, the borders of this continent, or this country, or this city…It’s important to open our minds.
(c) Simon Gosselin /// Hamlet
B: Politically, what can theatre do today? What impact can it have? How do you create having that in mind?
CJ: I say these things to you now but when I’m creating, I’m trying to be the most ethical and transparent and consistent in what I’m doing, and in the kind of dialogue I am creating. The impact we never know. Yesterday I talked with the actress who is playing Hamlet, Clotilde Hesme; it’s all about not being in control. You know you don’t have control over what you are doing but at the same time, asking how can I play with this risk, how can I play with these things I don’t know, and because theatre is really about the present moment, and the present moment is when you are together in this, again, collective space, in confrontation, in relationship with the audience. It is in this moment that the real, the widest theatre exists.
And this is the collective, not one but many people, and I know that the impact is different on you and another, but the wave that it can create is a kind of utopia that might change something.
B: Your way of working in theatre includes a camera on stage. How do you perceive technology, the abundance of screens progressively reaching culture, and theatre?
CJ: For me, projections and cameras have to be connected to the dramaturgy, really be a part of the fiction, of the story. Then this becomes a kind of research. That’s why, again about the borders, I’m asking how I can reach depth in this relationship, and that is why I continue. At the same time, as you asked, things change, no? Now, it’s like everything is about images, even our phones can film. The image becomes more and more a part of our life. It’s normal for something that’s part of our life to become part of the stage, but I don’t think that it’s the only way. I believe that you don’t need to use images or cameras to do contemporary theatre. It is more of a question – to use or not cameras. I don’t think it makes something contemporary, no. Maybe in the future we’ll be more analog.
B: You once qualified yourself as being primarily a writer but then, if I may ask, why theater? Do you write in the form of scripts, or plays, or what is your method?
CJ: I write a script. My text is really a mise-en-scène. I think about everything when I write, even the way I film the material on stage. Even the frame, the shooting, the movement of the cameras, so it’s really a lot of layers and from these layers you build a story. I write in the way I think the audience reads the story, and the story in the theatre is not only the text, it’s everything that’s on stage. Cinema is different. For me, cinema is more narrative, and theatre is more concrete.
B: You often use a diversity of inspirations and bodies of work to create your plays, such as documentaries, books, other plays, current politics…How do you choose a relevant topic for your next play?
CJ: The most part is connected to what moves me in this moment. For Hamlet, I was interested in thinking about the play for sure and about this character that is so big in his mind, her mind in this case, because everything can happen in the mind of Hamlet, but also because of my dreams, my nightmares, my doubts, all the questions of my past and my future, all of which makes me go in the direction of this play. It’s not very objective. Really, there are a lot of things that I only understand about my choices in the aftermath.
B: Would you like to pass a message to young people who want to work in the ever-changing field of performing arts?
CJ: I think that this generation can change things. I think that they, that you, are a generation that is living in an extreme world but that there is a movement that is very progressive. You have to think about this movement, to keep this movement going, to keep the idea that it’s about diversity, about the respect of the choices of others, to really give the possibility to listen to people who were silenced for a long time. In some moments I’m very pessimistic, I think “Okay it’s the end, there’s no chance”, but when I see this generation, I think “No, maybe things can change”. Don’t lose this. The capitalist system can be very seductive, and you can start losing the essence of what it means to be young.