„I am number five in a direct line to Liszt”
Die faszinierende Karriere des ersten Klassik-Superstars: Im Gespräch mit dem Pianisten Ivo Pogorelich über die 80-er, die Schattenseite des Weltruhms, Genies und das Problem mit den CDs.
Ein mittlerweile legendäres Foto von Ivo Pogorelich aus 1981 /// Malcolm Crowthers (c)
Die Weltkarriere des Ivo Pogorelich begann mit einem Eklat. Als er beim ehrwürdigen Chopin-Wettbewerb 1980 nicht für die Endrunde zugelassen wurde, verließen drei hochprominente Mitglieder protestierend die Jury: Nikita Magaloff, Paul Badura-Skoda und die damals schon legendäre Martha Argerich, die ihn prompt als Genie bezeichnete.
„I give absolutely no value to being called a genius.”
„Composers are. Listening to the German Requiem by Brahms you don’t know where that beauty comes from. Or Rachmaninov's 2nd Sonata, you cannot believe that someone can write something so profound and so incredibly different from anything before. That is a genius, I am just serving the composer.“
Argerichs öffentliche Genie-Bezeichnung mag er heute ablehnen, damals brachte sie ihm Weltruhm. „Greeks have a saying: Don’t be too handsome, too famous or too rich. I had elements of all of that at a very early age, so people were fascinated with me. In a time without internet, I had all the publicity and the best photographers in the world, only rivalled by some Hollywood stars. They compared me to Mick Jagger, but the only thing I had in common with him, that I was also very thin. I was also much more photogenic, good for him“, sagt er und bricht in einem ehrlichen Lachen aus. Die Welt konnte nicht genug vom feschen Pianisten und seinem Spiel haben. Er posierte für Esquire, die Vogue, war häufiger Gast im Fernsehen. So viel Buzz und Publicity um einen Klassikstar gab es bis dato höchstens um Franz Liszt 150 Jahre davor. Das Leben als Superstar brachte Pogorelich aber nicht nur Freude:
„I had a golden period from 1978 to 1980 after I won the competition of Terni. I had success that was not based on scandal, but on hard work.”
„When world fame came, it came like an avalanche.”
„It has brough many extremely vulgar things and I had no defence back then, I was only 22. So I followed the ancient Chinese wisdom: „Do not touch the dragon, it is much stronger than you. Just let it eat its own tail.“
That look! /// Davor Siftar (c)
Ähnlich wie heute bei Teodor Currentzis, schieden sich auch bei ihm die Meinungen der Kritiker*innen. Sein Image, seine teils neuartigen Interpretationen und seine Äußerungen sorgten für Kontroverse.
„Controversy sold tickets and records.”
„That was all the organizers were thinking about. I was the only one who thought of my present and future. I had to make my career sustainable. I would have been crushed very easily, have I not had conviction and character. Most people I worked with thought I would last for a couple of seasons, so they wanted to make quick money. All that I ever wanted in my life was to play the piano well. Nothing that I did was really eccentric. Yes, from time to time I said something interesting. Like in an interview with the LA Times, this became a famous sentence: I am so jet-lagged, I can only sleep at night.“
Die nächste große Zäsur in seinem Leben kam 1996, als Alisa Kezheradze seine Frau und Lehrerin starb. Pogorelich war 18, als er ihr nach ca. 10 Klavierstunden mitteilte, er würde sie heiraten. „Stop saying that, I have a happy marriage and a child“ erinnert sich die 21 Jahre ältere Alisa Kezheradze in einer sehenswerten Doku. Vier Jahre später heirateten sie aber tatsächlich und verließen gemeinsam die Sowjetunion. Er studierte mit ihr bis zu ihrem Tod, bis heute arbeitet er mit Kolleg*innen, wenn er neue Stücke einstudiert. Zunächst mit Marina Ambokadze, die wie seine Frau Schülerin von Nina Pleshcheyeva war. Die wiederum studierte bei Alexander Siloti, einem Liszt-Schüler. So eine direkte Linie zu Liszt bedeutet in der Klavierwelt viel. „I am number five in a direct line of teachers to Liszt, number seven to Beethoven and number 12 to Bach.“ Heutzutage kommt Pogorelich nach Wien, wenn er Hilfe braucht:
„I come regularly to Vienna to study with Avedis Kouyoumdjian like a student.”
„He studied with my late wife for 11 years and covered much more repertory with her while I was constantly on tour. I don’t believe in self-made musicians. I have always worked with someone, never alone. My work has to be tested before I show it to the public. I have as many questions as anybody else.“
Nach Wien kommt Pogorelich gern: „Vienna has always been cosmopolitan and traditional. That is what we appreciate. It was during corona, when I asked the chief concierge of the Hotel Imperial, which of their guests had the longest record with them. Apparently I am number two. I replied: Thank you for the compliment, I also feel very young (laughs). I was once reading about Wilhelm Kempff. He took a Zeppelin when he went to the US and was very happy because he could practice on board. I was a regular passenger on the Concorde, now that is also a thing of the past.”
Aktuell tourt er mit einem reinen Chopin-Programm durch die Welt.
„I always play only one recital programme in a season. Never more than that. I often go back to pieces I have played. Chopin's sonata Op. 58, that I play now, I first played when aged 15, against the wish of my teacher who was absolutely horrified. But when he saw how strong my desire was, he didn’t object. After I played it to him, he said: I detected something inside you that one day might be very important in the art of piano playing. You have an original talent and if you are working hard you will be able to present it to people. But I didn’t record it, although I know it for 49 years, I waited until I thought that what I felt should be documented.“
Es war diese Sonate Chopins, aus der Pogorelich Alisa Kezheradze, seiner künftigen Frau, vorspielte, als er sie das erste Mal traf. Über 45 Jahre später hat er nun dieses lang gereifte Werk für Sony aufgenommen. Wer es live erleben möchte, hat am 24. Mai im Konzerthaus die Gelegenheit.
Epilog
Ich habe wieder zu viel spannendes Material. Für alle die noch mehr haben wollen folgen hier noch ein paar Pogorelich-Zitate über Selfies, die Russische Klavierschule und Corona.
„Each programme has its start, and it’s sunset. It is not that the artist gets tired of the music, it is the music that gets tired of the artist (laughs long).”
„Today, people can do selfies with the Eiffel-tower or whatever, and they feel that they are protagonists. I think it is very good for them. I also sometimes take a selfie if I like something. When my career started there was no such thing, instead there were idols. That's not very healthy for the idol, but people need to follow something.”
„The connection that I have with Liszt comes through Alexander Siloti, Rachmaninov's cousin. He has written a little book about his experience with Liszt. It is not well known and hard to find. Try to find this book, it will give you a good impression of the ambience and the atmosphere of the Liszt-lessons. (Ich habe das Buch auf Amazon für knapp 600 € gefunden, ausverkauft. Auf einer dubios wirkenden Website habe ich dann einen indischen Nachdruck gekauft, mal schauen, ob das tatsächlich ankommt...)
I belong to the western school of the Russian Piano School derived from St. Petersburg, not to the Soviet School from Moscow. In 1922 all the teachers in St. Petersburg, who spoke French, were thrown out of the conservatory. Many emigrated, like Rosina and Josef Lhévine. Nina Pleshcheyeva went to Georgia and taught Aliza Kezeradze, my teacher and later wife. After she died, I continued to work with Marina Ambokadze, who was also taught by Nina Pleshcheyeva.
Liszt's piano school is the school of chords, based on the quart and the quint, except for atonal music. It is hard for young pianists to understand, they think that the faster the fingers run, the better it is. Playing bravura is also part of the school of Liszt, but it is the chord and the relation to the chord that distinguishes this school.”
„When I started, Compact Discs didn’t exist. One day von Karajan had to say something about CDs, I had to say a few sentences. Deutsche Grammophon wanted us to promote what in reality was a flop. The CD took away the listening quality in order to be able to listen to music in cars and on beach. CDs also reduced the effect of the image of the artist. No matter how impressive your expression was or how photogenic you were, the little format reduced that. Nowadays, people are going back to Vinyl.“
Was Pogorelich uns jungen Wiener*innen zu sagen hat: You live in an exciting city! Appreciate it, you are very privileged.